An Independent Voters View | Burning the Koran
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On September 11th , The Pastor of the Dove World Outreach Center, in Florida has made plans to publicly burn copies of the Koran. It is his right to do so, and I have spent a lifetime defending the rights of folks to do such things. It falls under freedom of speech and is protected under the Constitution of the United States. But I feel compelled to point out that with these rights come responsibilities, foremost among them the responsibility to be respectful of and show some tolerance for other religions.
The cowardly acts of September 11th 2001, are not in my view cause enough to indict an entire religion; nor does it serve any useful purpose to follow it with another cowardly act, designed for the self-promotion of an insignificant religious group that borders on a cult following. This is pouring gas on a fire that needs no additional fuel.
Speaking of that fire I would also point out how stupid I think it is for Muslims around the world to blow this out of proportion and riot in the streets over this. The words may well have been inspired by God but the book itself is but a man-made object. Where is the martyrdom in being trampled to death by fellow Muslims over some clown doing something stupid on the other side of the world? Better you direct that energy to reclaim your religion from the clowns who have hijacked it for their own evil purposes.
My point in all this? Osama and Rev Jones are both cowards cloaking themselves in their respective religions. If these clowns had a pair of balls Rev Jones would burn the Koran in say Saudi Arabia. Osama and Mullah Omar instead of hiding in a cave in Pakistan would be leading their troops from the front in Afghanistan. Neither of them are men of God, and should be recognized for what they are; spewers of manure.
I am a realist and recognize justice for Osama will ultimately come from within Islam. I would suggest the citizens of Gainesville Florida pool some pennies together and deliver back to Rev Jones and the Dove World Outreach Center, what he is giving us – a truckload of the feces of the male bovine species.
Deliver the Manure Here
5805 NW 37th St Gainesville, FL 32653 - More of An Independent Voters View
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Thanks Tom and you are right!
Where was the outrage a few year ago when a so called artist peed on the Bible?.....It's a book, people, get over it!!!! Only real loon-a-tics would riot.
Concur on both accounts, I think the so called artist was a piss head, and yep it's pretty stupid to riot over any of it. Thanks Jib!
True christians should respect others.
Keep on hubbing!
It'll be a fine day indeed when folks do just that. Thanks eovery!
Well Said!
Great hub on something that is being unnecessarily blown out of proportion. I'm afraid this will only give extremist muslims another reason to wage wars and kill! Sad really... 'Better you direct that energy to reclaim your religion from the clowns who have hijacked it for their own evil purposes.' You said it there!
Hope you do well, take care, always x
Hmrjmr1, great hub and I agree.
As you pointed out, it is a right but that doesn't make it 'right'...pretty stupid to fuel the flames by burning the book and even dumber for people to get upset over it and riot.
We simply need to treat our fellow human beings better, that's really the building block that crosses all religions, political parties, genders, race, etc. Simply being kind to one another and practicing understanding.
Hmjmr, This hub spells it all out perfectly and I agree with you completely.
Dan - Thanks Lad!
MOW - I take that as especially high praise coming from you. Thanks so much for stopping by!
LRCB - An amazing day when you and Tom W Agree, God Bless and Thanks!
Pam - Thanks so much for stopping by!
Great minds think alike, or America, take it back
Hmrjmr I feel the same way about this Pastor that I feel about them wanting to build a Mosque at Groundzero. And they are pretty much in line with your thoughts which are just because you can does not mean you should. I think a prayer service would have been much more appropriate as opposed to this blatant example of hate. And does it not occur to him his actions could further put our troops in the mideast in far more danger ? A completely thoughtless and hateful action ! And even if he does not do it Saturday he has already done further harm to any hope of more harmonious relations ! Thx Hmrjmr.
Catarino - Hooah Buddy!
Tony - Just goes to show religious hijackers are every where! Keep vigilant, Thanks my Friend!
I just wrote on this subject, from a different angle. Americans are speaking out against the koran burning. When have muslims spoken out against bible burnings?
Sheila - You are right they haven't, but their failure to do so does not mean we should lower our standards for one of our own. Burning of these books weather they are bibles, korans, or whatever is stupid, and it's a world wide condition. Thanks for stopping by! You wrote a great Hub!
yep... I worry about our boys in the Afghan -- they got enough stuff to contend with.
Chris - Yep it's a cup of gas thrown on the fire. Not something the lads need right now. Thanks for stopping in and commenting!
Well said Hmrjmr, I agree with everything you've written here. Like you said this man is committing a cowardly act in hopes of accomplishing...what? I don't know but whatever he hopes to accomplish by burning this book is not going to be accomplished.
Wes - I believe draining the pus from a pimple on the ass of a sand gnat would be a more socially redeeming event than this clowns book burning. Thanks my friend!
Brilliant piece of writing Hmrjmr. It makes so much sense which is a rare commodity these days.
Thanks Pop! See ya at the Inn!
Great Hub, Hmrjmr. Love the manure delivery idea. I wrote an Op-ed piece & posted it on Examiner.com yesterday entitled, "9/11 remembered and crackpot theology" -- wish I would have thought of the manure plan. :>)
Ken - Much thanks lets hope someone from Gainesville gets the word...(hint hint)
I'm curious about people's preoccupation with this guy. He's the pastor of a small church, membership numbers in the dozens. Why is what he and whatever few of his followers do of any concern to any of us, or the world? Further, why is it even vaguely relevant to politics today? This man speaks for himself, he not associated with any organized denomination of any size. I mean, there are organizations of people who believe in the all the conspiracy theories who are vastly larger in number. Heck, his entire congregation is smaller than the number of people on my facebook. Yet, even if every one of my facebook friends were to attempt to influence our country in exactly the same direction, it would be completely meaningless, lost in the size of the country, and unheard.
So, why is the media making a big deal out of it? Are they trying to foment violence from Muslims and controversy on forums? Why is it even news worth reporting? Dumber stuff than this is done in greater numbers on a regular basis.
Weholdthesetruths - It's a wonder to me as well for the rest of the media, as for me and my comments, it is what it is and at the time I didn't have much of anything better to do, so here ya are.
Thanks for stopping by and commenting!
You hit the nail on the head. The comparison of Jones and Osama...perfect.
Thanks Tom - they are cut from the same cloth in my view.
1. You're being too reasonable. I'm surprised no one has called you out on it.
2. I think Jones got himself a copy of "Public Relations for Dummies" and put it to good use.
3. How does "Burn a Koran Day" jibe with "Dove World Outreach"??? I mean, Dove symbolic of love, the Holy Ghost, Jesus Christ, and, most widely accepted, peace. The irony, when watching this lunatic, is palpable.
Thanks for your sanity.
-J
Jay - Thanks for coming by and commenting, I kinda thought a load of crap for a load of crap was fittin'. I think you're right on numbers 2 and 3. Have a great day hope to see ya again.
This Pastor has been painted as a God fearing man who has a right to burn someone else´s religious book if he likes.
I saw a video on CNN about him a few minutes ago. It showed 2 people from Cologne in Germany who used to be in his church there. Apparantly, he used to ask them to donate things and he would sell them, supposedly to finance his church but in fact most of the money went into his own pocket. According to these parishioners of his, Pastor Jones likened himself to God. If you went against Jones, you went against God.
I cannot verify the truth of this but it shows him as someone just trying to get cheap notoriety for himself.
Just a con man. If he is allowed to get his way and force a change in plans that are made in another city, then anyone will try a stunt like this and out of fear, will get what he wants.
Is this what America and the world wants? I don´t think so.
A good hub and your map showing where to deliver the manure is a good addition.
Thanks Hummingbird - I think we see him in the same light, as for the map Hub pages gave us a new tool just in time, (Divine Providence?)
Excellent hub. I enjoyed your straight forward solution, and to the point observation, to this situation. Thanks for the clarity and the much needed common sense that this issue is crying out for.
In 2005 a Danish Newspaper printed Cartoons about Mohammed, there were death threats, riots, and big debates about censorship.
It is not like other religions have not appeared in cartoons, why should Mohammad be any more special?
Islam was complaining about the offensiveness of these cartoons. Yet, there is not reciprocity when people in this country feel offended that a mosque would be erected so close to the WTC destruction.
Why do some people in this country think that we have to unilaterally give credence to Islam or anyone, when at the same time they don't return in kind.
When Palestine terrorists blow up civilians on a regular basis, no one seriously admonishes them or Palestine for these deadly acts. When Israel fights back to protect itself then all the critics come out of the woodwork to sanction their actions. The actions by Israel and Palestine are different in many ways one is defensive and the other is offensive. One targets helpless civilians, men, women and children. The other does it as a military protection for their country and yes there is sometimes peripheral civilian deaths, but they are not the prime target. The list goes on but the real question is why isn't there the same outrage against the Palestine terrorists.
Additionally there is liberal outrage against waterboarding terrorists, yet these liberals don't have time to condemn the terrorists who kill civilians, kidnap and torture them and then behead them. How can anyone compare waterboarding with murder.
During the Vietnam War "peace" activists were burning the American Flag, and many were dodging the draft. If that was OK and protected by the constitution as free speech, then if you own a book, any book then you can do what you want with it.
Does your God want you to kill someone because they burned a copy of your bible or holy book?
The bottom line is the respect only works when it is mutual. So far I don't see that mutuality from Islam.
If they can consider a cartoon offensive, then we can consider building a mosque near where over 2700 people were murdered by Islamic Terrorists offensive.
In Iraq these Islamic Terrorists hide in mosque and kill people. I don't see the followers of Islam in America doing enough separation from these extremists.
If instead of the Federal Building in Oklahoma City suppose that they targeted a mosque in NYC. Six humdred in the mosque die a brutal death. Then years later the Arian Nation wants to build their headquarters a few blocks from that mosque.
What would be the arguments for and against them building it there?
Hammer, I'm days behind and late to the party, but well said and voted up 50
I couldn't have stated it better myself. Thanks for your rational thinking.
Opinion Duck - I think the two situations are apples and oranges, (both fruit but much different). This guy in Florida, is just stupid and inconsiderate. The Imam in NY is as well but there I think the money trail is more involved and I will be writing about it soon. Never-the-less, the rioting etc is just plain stupid. As they eleven have died in riots in Afghanistan since the burning was called off.
What you are failing to see I think is that this article and others like it are Christians holding our own to a standard of conduct commensurate with our beliefs. That does appear to be lacking in the middle east, and through much of the Muslim world.
Opinion Duck _ Pr Thanks for stopping by and commenting!
Dusty - Thanks my friend good to see ya!
TruthAwake - Glad you stopped by and that you enjoyed it!
Spot on on all counts. I too get all the bantor about rights to do this and rights to do that. I never once disputed the rights of the Imam to build his Mosque in New York so close to Ground Zero. And I don't dispute the Rev.'s right to burn the Quran either. The question is, should either be done? Does the action hurt a very large population? Does the action incite dissent and potential violence? I think in the case of the Mosque AND the case of the burning of the Quran the answer is a resounding YES. Neither serves any real purpose but to offer a slap in the face to the other side.
I think your assessment of these two men is great BTW as well. Neither have a pair, that's just been pointed out brilliantly.
Springboard - Thanks for stopping by and commenting. There is one significant difference between the two men and their cause, which I will soon address and that is the money trail. Not sure actually which one of the two is snakiest snake in the field.
What would the Christians do if it was the bible that was going to be burned. How would they react compared to Islam?
I think that is the big difference.
OpinionDuck - You are correct it is the big difference, we (Christians) tend to hold our own to a higher standard.
Just as long as you religious types don't go and destroy the world with your inate stupidity (then claim it was "rapture" that did it"
Please religions - stop it. I've had enough of ALL your bullshit - before you kill us all, please just stop.
Dave - Thanks for stopping by and commenting Sir.
There is much confusion in the religious world about the God that they follow. There is no accord among the religions as to the true God. Catholics and Protestants are close in Jesus, but there were deaths over these two religions in Ireland. There was that Christians against the Muslims in the Crusades. Jews don't believe in the Trinity or Jesus as the prophet they are waiting for. The Muslims think Mohammad followed Jesus and replaced him. But when Mohammad died he didn't make it clear as to who was his successor. So Muslims kill other factions of Muslims.
Some Dictators are Aetheists while some are very religious but both kinds have been known to kill for and against religion. The Communists and the Marxists killed the Jews because of their religion. The Islamic Extremists kill the Infidels for Mohammad or Allah. Infidels are basically anyone not them.
my opinion.
OpinionDuck - I have to correct this idea, the God all three religions follow is the God of Abraham. Abraham was a Jew, Jesus is the son of the God of Abraham, the Muslims recognize they are descendants of one of Abraham's Sons (Ibrahim I believe). Mohamed made no claim as to another God. Just that God told him what to write. No confusion there. All the division is over power within their respective churches and interpretation of the words man claim God inspired. Thus there are many sects with them all.
Pograms have been held against the Jews in every country of Europe, including but not limited to England, France, Italy, Spain and others and the current troubles in the Middle East from the granting of them Israel for a homeland after World War II. So they had some place to go and the Europeans didn't have to deal with them after what they had been through as a people under the Nazi's and Communists. Tough history but there it is.
The pastor may have been mad to even consider trying to burn a copy of the koran as it was very disrespectful however it sure did bring the atrocities of 9/11 back to the forefront of peoples minds worldwide... and reinforce what we all increasingly know to be true.... that they are all irrational, hysterical and over sensitive to every whiff of a slur against their culture and religion!
S Short - So it seems. It pegs the stupid meter full stop.
ha ha ha...very very true!!!!
Love the article. exactly my feelings towards this whole spectacle. I wish the religious nutjobs on both sides could just kill each other off without trampling the rest of us while on their idiotic crusades/jihads.
Angel - Glad you enjoyed it!
vsan - I wish they would actually read their own books and funnel that energy towards helping those who need it. There my cumbiah moment has passed.
Thanks!
Thanks for voicing some always-needed reason. What bothers me is that few Christians understand the mandates of their own religion, and if they heard passages from the Bible without the source being identified, they'd say it should be burned too, which makes me look at burning a Koran as hypocritical bigotry. Sarah Palin was on TV saying we should use the morality of the Bible, so she's saying we should stone her daughter to death. Fun times.
eslevy17 - Thanks for the comment but I think the morality of the bible found in the New Testament, would be "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." wouldn't be me.
A snake is a snake. :)
The biggest problem is the news media. If they did not report it, then noone would do it.
"Neither of them are men of God, and should be recognized for what they are; spewers of manure." AMEN brother! Well said.
Tom Whitworth Level 5 Commenter 20 months ago
Hmrjmr1,
You have made and eloquent statement about rights vs right as I did my Hub on the subject.
http://hubpages.com/hub/ARE-RIGHTS-ALWAYS-RIGHT